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Episodes / Interviews / Marriage

86: Marriage: The Good, The Hard, and The Beautiful with Gary Thomas

February 10, 2020

Imagine what would happen if you stopped expecting your spouse to make you happy?  What if you no longer believed that a good marriage is something you find, but rather it is something you work for? How would your relationship change if you embraced difficult times as a season of your marriage instead of an excuse to leave it?

In Episode 86, Daniel and Christina interview best selling author, Gary Thomas, about God’s beautiful design for marriage. Gary will help us stop highlighting where our spouse falls short and encourage us to focus on the divine mysteries of marriage and the lessons it has to teach us.

In This Episode, You Will Hear About:

  • God’s design for marriage
  • What happens when we admit marriage is difficult
  • How our struggles in our marriage can be sacred
  • What we should do if we are not happy in our marriage

Resources Mentioned During the Episode:

  • Grab your copy of Gary Thomas’ books, The Sacred Marriage  and The Sacred Search
  • Check out Gary’s newest book When To Walk Away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People
  • Listen to our previous episode about Dating Your Spouse in Every Season of Life
  • Make sure to tun into Episode 76: 4 Things to Remember When Marriage is Hard

Quotables and Tweetables:

  • “What if God designed marriage to make us holy more than to make us happy?” – @garyLthomas
  • “To spiritually benefit from marriage, we have to be honest. We have to look at our disappointments, own up to our ugly attitudes, and confront our selfishness.” @garyLthomas
  • “Romantic love has no elasticity to it. It can never be stretched; it simply shatters. Mature love, the kind demanded of a good marriage, must stretch, as the sinful human condition is such that all of us bear conflicting emotions.” @garyLthomas
  • “We can run from the challenges of marriage, or we can admit that every marriage presents these challenges and asks us to address them head on.” @garyLthomas
  • “It’s not holy instead of happy. Holiness preserves happiness.” @garyLthomas
  • “You are going to have good seasons, quiet seasons, and frustrating seasons in your marriage. But, you don’t define your  marriage by any particular season.” @garyLthomas
  • “Marriage calls us to an entirely new and selfless life.” @garyLthomas
  • “Though marriage is an amazing institution that reflects God’s creative genius, when we want to get the largest portion of our life’s fulfillment from our relationship with our spouse, that’s asking too much. God didn’t design marriage to compete with himself but to point us to himself.” @garyLthomas
  • We preserve our marriage because it brings glory to God and points a sinful world to a reconciling creator.” @garyLthomas

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And don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast, so that you will never miss an episode!

_____________________________________________________________

Meet Gary Thomas:

Gary Thomas’ writing and speaking focuses on bringing people closer to Christ and closer to others.   He is the author of 18 books that together have sold over a million and a half copies and have been translated into more than a dozen languages. These books include When to Walk Away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People;  Sacred Marriage: What if God Designed Marriage to Make Us Holy More Than to Make Us Happy?, The Sacred Search: What If It’s Not About Who You Marry, but Why?, and the Gold Medallion award winner Authentic Faith.  Gary holds a B.A. in English Literature from Western Washington University, an MA degree in systematic theology from Regent College (Vancouver, BC), and an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree from Western Seminary (Portland, OR). He serves on the teaching team (and as Writer in Residence) at Second Baptist Church, Houston—a congregation with six campuses and 70,000 members—and is an adjunct faculty member at Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon and Houston Theological Seminary in Houston Texas. Gary’s speaking ministry has led him to speak in 49 states and nine different countries, and on numerous national television and radio programs, including multiple appearances on Focus on the Family and Family Life Today. Gary’s interviews on Focus on the Family have been chosen among the “Best of 2013,” “Best of 2014” and “Best of 2017.” Gary enjoys running in his spare time and has completed 14 marathons, including the Boston Marathon three times. He and his wife Lisa have been married for 35 years and they have three adult children and one precious granddaughter. Gary is active online through his website (www.garythomas.com), twitter (@garyLthomas) and Facebook (www.facebook.com/authorgarythomas)
TAGS:beautifuldesigneddifficultdisappointmentfreedomGary ThomasGodgoodhappyhardholyinterviewlovematurereconcileromanticSacred Marriagesearchseasonselflessstruggletoxic
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Daniel and Christina Im
about us

Daniel and Christina Im

We’re Daniel and Christina Im. Our heart’s desire and mission is to give you the tools to build a strong, connected, and joy-filled marriage and family.

Instagram

Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. 

Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. 

We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. 

Much Love,
Daniel and Christina 

#PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong  #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. 

Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. 

We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. 

Much Love,
Daniel and Christina 

#PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong  #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. 

Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. 

We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. 

Much Love,
Daniel and Christina 

#PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong  #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
•
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Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. Much Love, Daniel and Christina #PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
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In a compelling analogy from Episode 198 of our IMbetween Podcast, our guest @davidsunde describes parents as “tour guides” rather than “travel agents” in their children’s faith journeys. Unlike travel agents who arrange logistics from afar, tour guides walk with their children through every high and low. This metaphor highlights the importance of presence and shared experiences in nurturing faith. By being there for the everyday moments, parents can provide authentic guidance and support, much like God’s nature as Emmanuel—“God with us.” It’s an insightful shift in perspective that’s worth reflecting on.

Listen to Episode 198 wherever you get your podcasts, or here https://imbetween.org/episode198/

#parenting #disciplemaking #discipleship #christcenteredhome
•
Follow
In a compelling analogy from Episode 198 of our IMbetween Podcast, our guest @davidsunde describes parents as “tour guides” rather than “travel agents” in their children’s faith journeys. Unlike travel agents who arrange logistics from afar, tour guides walk with their children through every high and low. This metaphor highlights the importance of presence and shared experiences in nurturing faith. By being there for the everyday moments, parents can provide authentic guidance and support, much like God’s nature as Emmanuel—“God with us.” It’s an insightful shift in perspective that’s worth reflecting on. Listen to Episode 198 wherever you get your podcasts, or here https://imbetween.org/episode198/ #parenting #disciplemaking #discipleship #christcenteredhome
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The Role of Numbing Behaviors 🤔🫨

Ever wonder why we turn to quick fixes when we’re stressed or exhausted? In Episode 197 of the IMbetween Podcast, @chris3janssen explains that numbing behaviors like reaching for sugary treats or alcohol provide immediate relief but often at a significant cost. 

We discuss a powerful exercise from her book, “Grace Yourself,” that helps individuals evaluate these numbing patterns and consider healthier alternatives. It’s about gaining awareness and making intentional choices to support our well-being. 

Tune in wherever you listen to your podcasts, or here @ https://imbetween.org/episode197
•
Follow
The Role of Numbing Behaviors 🤔🫨 Ever wonder why we turn to quick fixes when we’re stressed or exhausted? In Episode 197 of the IMbetween Podcast, @chris3janssen explains that numbing behaviors like reaching for sugary treats or alcohol provide immediate relief but often at a significant cost. We discuss a powerful exercise from her book, “Grace Yourself,” that helps individuals evaluate these numbing patterns and consider healthier alternatives. It’s about gaining awareness and making intentional choices to support our well-being. Tune in wherever you listen to your podcasts, or here @ https://imbetween.org/episode197
2 months ago
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Did you know that despite growing awareness of mental health, anxiety and depression rates in children and adolescents have sharply risen? 

In episode 196 of the @imbetweenshow podcast, @sarahboyd, author of Turn Down the Noise, discusses how overstimulation in our environment could be a key factor. 

Just like a garden needs the right conditions to thrive, so do our minds. It’s about adjusting our surroundings to create supportive spaces for everyone, especially our kids. 🌱📘 

Listen wherever you get your podcasts, or by going to https://imbetween.org/episode196/

#MentalHealth #Overstimulation #Parenting
•
Follow
Did you know that despite growing awareness of mental health, anxiety and depression rates in children and adolescents have sharply risen? In episode 196 of the @imbetweenshow podcast, @sarahboyd, author of Turn Down the Noise, discusses how overstimulation in our environment could be a key factor. Just like a garden needs the right conditions to thrive, so do our minds. It’s about adjusting our surroundings to create supportive spaces for everyone, especially our kids. 🌱📘 Listen wherever you get your podcasts, or by going to https://imbetween.org/episode196/ #MentalHealth #Overstimulation #Parenting
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Ever feel like an imposter in your own life? @cassandralspeer shares her struggles with imposter syndrome. On episode 195 of the IMbetween Podcast, we delved into how these feelings of inadequacy can actually highlight our humility and dependence on God. It’s a poignant reminder that feeling unqualified doesn’t disqualify us from our purpose—it can be a step towards it.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts or at https://imbetween.org/epsiode195/
•
Follow
Ever feel like an imposter in your own life? @cassandralspeer shares her struggles with imposter syndrome. On episode 195 of the IMbetween Podcast, we delved into how these feelings of inadequacy can actually highlight our humility and dependence on God. It’s a poignant reminder that feeling unqualified doesn’t disqualify us from our purpose—it can be a step towards it. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or at https://imbetween.org/epsiode195/
3 months ago
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Happy birthday to my bestest friend @danielsangi and the person who makes me laugh harder and louder than anyone else in this world. Life with you is more beautiful, whimsical, adventurous, full, and fun than I ever imagined. Today, we celebrate you and the gift your presence is to us. Love you forever!
Happy birthday to my bestest friend @danielsangi and the person who makes me laugh harder and louder than anyone else in this world. Life with you is more beautiful, whimsical, adventurous, full, and fun than I ever imagined. Today, we celebrate you and the gift your presence is to us. Love you forever!
Happy birthday to my bestest friend @danielsangi and the person who makes me laugh harder and louder than anyone else in this world. Life with you is more beautiful, whimsical, adventurous, full, and fun than I ever imagined. Today, we celebrate you and the gift your presence is to us. Love you forever!
•
Follow
Happy birthday to my bestest friend @danielsangi and the person who makes me laugh harder and louder than anyone else in this world. Life with you is more beautiful, whimsical, adventurous, full, and fun than I ever imagined. Today, we celebrate you and the gift your presence is to us. Love you forever!
3 months ago
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@imbetweenshow

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Hello Instagram

Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. 

Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. 

We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. 

Much Love,
Daniel and Christina 

#PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong  #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. 

Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. 

We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. 

Much Love,
Daniel and Christina 

#PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong  #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. 

Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. 

We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. 

Much Love,
Daniel and Christina 

#PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong  #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
•
Follow
Some #spotify wins for the IMbetween podcast this past year. Thanks to all of our listeners and Podcast Family for journeying with us and trusting us with your time. Our podcast started out as a dream to help build strong marriages and families because when we were hurting the most (that 7 year struggle is real!) and couldn’t afford therapy, we didn’t know where to turn. We didn’t want anyone else to feel the same way, so we created a place and space where people could listen and learn in a safe environment. We have learned and grown so much since that first episode drop 7 years ago. In many ways, we’ve grown up together and watched our kids grow up too. It has been a blessing to walk this road together. Cheers to 2026 and all that it brings. Much Love, Daniel and Christina #PodcastFamily #PodcastCommunity #ThankYouListeners #GratefulHeart #SevenYearsStrong #GrowingTogether #christianmarriage #marriagepodcast #spotifywrapped #marriagehelp #imbetweenpodcast #PodcastWins #PodcastMilestones #PodcastersOfInstagram #PodcastersUnite #SpotifyPodcasts
1 week ago
View on Instagram |
1/5
In a compelling analogy from Episode 198 of our IMbetween Podcast, our guest @davidsunde describes parents as “tour guides” rather than “travel agents” in their children’s faith journeys. Unlike travel agents who arrange logistics from afar, tour guides walk with their children through every high and low. This metaphor highlights the importance of presence and shared experiences in nurturing faith. By being there for the everyday moments, parents can provide authentic guidance and support, much like God’s nature as Emmanuel—“God with us.” It’s an insightful shift in perspective that’s worth reflecting on.

Listen to Episode 198 wherever you get your podcasts, or here https://imbetween.org/episode198/

#parenting #disciplemaking #discipleship #christcenteredhome
•
Follow
In a compelling analogy from Episode 198 of our IMbetween Podcast, our guest @davidsunde describes parents as “tour guides” rather than “travel agents” in their children’s faith journeys. Unlike travel agents who arrange logistics from afar, tour guides walk with their children through every high and low. This metaphor highlights the importance of presence and shared experiences in nurturing faith. By being there for the everyday moments, parents can provide authentic guidance and support, much like God’s nature as Emmanuel—“God with us.” It’s an insightful shift in perspective that’s worth reflecting on. Listen to Episode 198 wherever you get your podcasts, or here https://imbetween.org/episode198/ #parenting #disciplemaking #discipleship #christcenteredhome
2 weeks ago
View on Instagram |
2/5
The Role of Numbing Behaviors 🤔🫨

Ever wonder why we turn to quick fixes when we’re stressed or exhausted? In Episode 197 of the IMbetween Podcast, @chris3janssen explains that numbing behaviors like reaching for sugary treats or alcohol provide immediate relief but often at a significant cost. 

We discuss a powerful exercise from her book, “Grace Yourself,” that helps individuals evaluate these numbing patterns and consider healthier alternatives. It’s about gaining awareness and making intentional choices to support our well-being. 

Tune in wherever you listen to your podcasts, or here @ https://imbetween.org/episode197
•
Follow
The Role of Numbing Behaviors 🤔🫨 Ever wonder why we turn to quick fixes when we’re stressed or exhausted? In Episode 197 of the IMbetween Podcast, @chris3janssen explains that numbing behaviors like reaching for sugary treats or alcohol provide immediate relief but often at a significant cost. We discuss a powerful exercise from her book, “Grace Yourself,” that helps individuals evaluate these numbing patterns and consider healthier alternatives. It’s about gaining awareness and making intentional choices to support our well-being. Tune in wherever you listen to your podcasts, or here @ https://imbetween.org/episode197
2 months ago
View on Instagram |
3/5
Did you know that despite growing awareness of mental health, anxiety and depression rates in children and adolescents have sharply risen? 

In episode 196 of the @imbetweenshow podcast, @sarahboyd, author of Turn Down the Noise, discusses how overstimulation in our environment could be a key factor. 

Just like a garden needs the right conditions to thrive, so do our minds. It’s about adjusting our surroundings to create supportive spaces for everyone, especially our kids. 🌱📘 

Listen wherever you get your podcasts, or by going to https://imbetween.org/episode196/

#MentalHealth #Overstimulation #Parenting
•
Follow
Did you know that despite growing awareness of mental health, anxiety and depression rates in children and adolescents have sharply risen? In episode 196 of the @imbetweenshow podcast, @sarahboyd, author of Turn Down the Noise, discusses how overstimulation in our environment could be a key factor. Just like a garden needs the right conditions to thrive, so do our minds. It’s about adjusting our surroundings to create supportive spaces for everyone, especially our kids. 🌱📘 Listen wherever you get your podcasts, or by going to https://imbetween.org/episode196/ #MentalHealth #Overstimulation #Parenting
2 months ago
View on Instagram |
4/5
Ever feel like an imposter in your own life? @cassandralspeer shares her struggles with imposter syndrome. On episode 195 of the IMbetween Podcast, we delved into how these feelings of inadequacy can actually highlight our humility and dependence on God. It’s a poignant reminder that feeling unqualified doesn’t disqualify us from our purpose—it can be a step towards it.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts or at https://imbetween.org/epsiode195/
•
Follow
Ever feel like an imposter in your own life? @cassandralspeer shares her struggles with imposter syndrome. On episode 195 of the IMbetween Podcast, we delved into how these feelings of inadequacy can actually highlight our humility and dependence on God. It’s a poignant reminder that feeling unqualified doesn’t disqualify us from our purpose—it can be a step towards it. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or at https://imbetween.org/epsiode195/
3 months ago
View on Instagram |
5/5
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